Joe Tainter: “Surplus, Complexity, and Simplification” | The Great Simplification #27

On this episode we meet with anthropologist, historian, and Professor at Utah State University, Joe Tainter. What are the key differences between complicated and complex? How can we better understand energy and society through these key distinctions? Tainter explains our current predicament based on decades of research and offers pathways for our collective future. Joe Tainter has been a professor at Utah State University in the Environment and Society Department since 2007, serving as Department Head from 2007 to 2009. His study of why societies collapse led to research on sustainability, with emphasis on energy and innovation. He has also conducted research on land-use conflict and human responses to climate change. He has written several books, including The Collapse of Complex Societies and Drilling Down: The Gulf Oil Debacle and Our Energy Dilemma. Find out more, and show notes: https://www.thegreatsimplification.co... 00:57 - Joe Tainter Works + Info 02:00 - Living in the Future’s Past (Movie with Jeff Bridges) 04:10 - Collapse of the Roman empire and collapse of the Mayan empire 04:13 - Optimal Foraging Theory 06:43 - Agates and Stromatolites 07:20 - EROI/Energy Gain 10:48 - Tadeusz Patzek + Drilling Down: The Gulf Oil Debacle and Our Energy Dilemma 11:01 - US forces in N. Africa in 1942 15:40 - Complexity develops to solve a problem 16:57 - Underpaying for fossil carbons 17:58 - In the past, 90% of humans labored in food production 20:09 - Paul Maidowski Twitter 20:35 - Early socialization creates synapses that shape the person to come 22:11 - Maximum Power Principle 22:59 - Energy Complexity Spiral (Drilling Down) 23:38 - Joe on the Byzantine Empire (pg. 63) 29:50 - We are not evolved to think broadly in space and time 31:07 - Mayan calendrical and astronomical knowledge 32:50 - Climate Change 34:33 - Thomas Malthus 34:38 - Paul Ehrlich info + TGS podcast 35:20 - A refrigerator uses more energy than many countries use per capita 35:45 - George H.W. Bush on Climate 36:24 - Tragedy of the commons 38:25 - Petroleum and WW2 38:30 - Oil used to be 100:1 EROI, now it is 15:1 41:11 - Fracking technology “makes the straw bigger” 41:23 - Countries like Germany and Japan have to import most energy 41:57 - The Euro has weakened against the Ruble 42:11 - Freeport LNG explosion 42:31 - Natural gas prices 42:45 - Fracking 45:20 - Energy drawbacks of a renewable system in comparison to oil based 46:00 - We are optimizing societies for growth - which will never be possible 47:05 - Dominican Republic dictator who preserved the forests 48:05 - How money and debt interacts with energy 50:34 - What would life be like in 1750 Europe 54:45 - Steady State economy 56:35 - Issues with assumptions in modern economic theory 57:20 - Charles Darwin, Marie Curie, Gregor Mendel 58:40 - Deborah Strumsky and Jose Lobo, patent paper 1:03:18 - All the things that petroleum is valuable for 1:10:55 - Montessori education #natehagens #thegreatsimplification #joetainter