06 Jacquie McGlade on hope from the Global South and the value of talk in international negotiations

In our online discussion, Jacquie McGlade chats about her unique perspective on environmental harms and solutions. She’s Professor at UCL in London and Strathmore in Kenya, is former Director of the European Environment Agency, Chief Scientist at UNEP (the UN Environment Programme), and is a resident of Kenya. She talks of hope in the Global South, and how the young of Africa will be future world leaders to get us out of modern polycrises. The North is brittle and fearful, where hope seems so easily dashed. In the South, “Hope always springs eternal.” She talks of national addictions to fossil fuels, and how with intent countries are changing fast. Jacquie was lead negotiator at the EEA and UNEP in international negotiations for COPs. Fundamental to all agreements and progress, she says, is talk. Talk is good. COPs are like large plays, three Acts, drama, ups and downs. She says, “Living in a mud hut makes you endlessly happy.” Her hero is Sir Crispin Tickell, climate negotiator and diplomat. Her recommended book is Song of the Reed Warbler by Charles Massy. Her top action: “Take one step, it’s how all journeys begin.” And then go outside, and “take a handful of soil, and smell it.” My new book will be supporting this podcast, and will be published in March 2027. It is called "Bamboo and Butterfly: Transformative Stories for Climate and Nature Recovery."