What To Do Instead of Zone 2 for Cardio? | Mike Joyner, Mayo Clinic

If you’re a serious recreational athlete but you have a job and a life, and only five hours a week to train — what should you be doing? Our cardio episodes have to date discussed Zone 2 and explained VO₂max. Armed with that context, now our audience wants to know: If not Zone 2, then what? This week, Stu and Marty provide the answer with the help of one of the world’s foremost experts on aerobic conditioning and the limits of human performance, Dr. Michael Joyner of the Mayo Clinic. Dr. Joyner is a legend of the exercise science field and an elite runner himself, who back in 1991 conducted the first analysis establishing the physiologic possibility of a sub-two-hour marathon. Since our conversation with Joyner happened to fall just days after Sabastian Sawe and Yomif Kejelcha achieved the first official sub-2:00 marathon times earlier this spring, the conversation begins with a discussion of Joyner’s 1991 analysis. Then Marty and Stu challenge Joyner to get specific about what amateur athletes should be doing, if they want to achieve the best possible aerobic fitness for health with about five hours a week of training. In other words, what does one of the world’s most renowned scientists at the intersection of human physiology and athletic performance suggest for the optimal training regimen? How much vigorous training should we all be doing, relative to moderate- and low-intensity training? How much HIIT should we be doing? What does Joyner think about Zone 2? What does Joyner do for his own fitness as a 68-year-old man? Plus a listener question asking how to know when you’re training too much. Have a listener question or an idea for a future episode? Email us at [email protected] Exercise Science is powered by @myeverme , the longevity intelligence app. Download EverMe for free at your favourite app store. Exercise Science listeners get a free two-month trial to EverMe at this link: https://www.everme.ai/exercisescience SHOW LINKS Exercise Science is everywhere @realexercisescience: Substack: http://realexercisescience.com Instagram:   / realexercisescience   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/29lBGiR... X: https://x.com/realexscience EPISODE LINKS Two runners break fabled two hour marathon barrier. https://worldathletics.org/competitio... Friend of Exercise Science Alex Hutchinson wrote about it for The Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/20... Joyner’s famous 2011 article: The Two Hour Marathon: Who and When? https://journals.physiology.org/doi/f... Mike Joyner’s 1991 paper that is a staple in Marty’s Integrative Physiology class: Modeling: optimal marathon performance on the basis of physiological factors. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2022559/ Dr. Michael Joyner’s website — been awhile since he updated it but fascinating nonetheless https://www.drmichaeljoyner.com/ Andy Jones’ paper referenced by Joyner: The fourth dimension https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37606... Physiological demands of running at 2-hour marathon race pace - Journal of Applied Physiology https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33151... A Perspective on High-Intensity Interval Training for Performance and Health - Sports Med https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37804... The “How They Train” series by Fred Wilt https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear... DISCUSSION POINTS 00:00 Intro 02:44 Welcoming Dr. Michael Joyner 03:45 Joyner reacts to 2:00 04:47 Who is Joyner? 06:18 Marathon predictions 11:13 Joyner prediction reception 13:03 Performance determinants 15:51 Other performance determinants 18:59 Elite characteristics 20:50 How elite is elite 22:03 Joyner on Zone 2 26:55 Joyner’s training haiku 29:30 Optimal intensities 30:40 Long intervals key 32:22 Is 80/20 wasting time? 33:43 Resistance training 35:00 Do SOMETHING 36:51 Zone 2 too low 38:51 Vigorous benefits 40:37 What Joyner does 42:35 More haikus 43:59 Listener question 46:52 Wrap up DISCLAIMER The Exercise Science podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Strength training and fitness carry inherent risks. Always consult with a physician or qualified healthcare provider before starting any new exercise program or making changes to your diet. The hosts, producers, sponsors and guests of this podcast disclaim any liability for any injuries or losses connected with the information discussed in this show. Martin Gibala is an advisor to and holds equity in Longevity League Ltd., a US-based company whose services in part relate to exercise.