A Divine City Fallen from Grace; What Can We Learn from Atlantis?

A Discussion with Gregory Shaw and Ike Baker About Plato’s Critias The Ladder: Journeys in Platonic Mysticism Episode 35 Danielle Layne, Ike Baker of    / @arcanvm   and Gregory Shaw help us to unlock many of the clues sunken in the dialogue of the myth of Atlantis: Plato’s Critias. The conversation relates to several other Platonic dialogues, especially the Republic and Timaeus. The main thematic areas are Platonic psychology, anthropology, and ethics, with a focus on personal transformation. 00-1:30: Introductory content 1:31-7:50: Danny explains the basics of the Platonic dialogues Timaeus and Critias, including the myth of Atlantis, its relationship to the Republic and the beautiful city; Question of prayer 7:51-14:15: Ike and Gregory respond 14:16-18:45: Danny homes in on their remarks about ritual, magic, compact, myth, tradition of storytelling encoded with symbolism, hymns, ways of life; Also remarks about drama, poetry, Solon 18:46-20:40: Gregory comments on the divine structures and their incarnate expressions in the dialogues 20:41- 22:50: Ike connects to the Divided Line of the Republic, holy speech, cosmology, cosmogony, jazz 22:51- 25:00: Danny homes in on the theme of music as myths, stories; Explains initial difficulties with the Timaeus; The popular fascination with Atlantis 25:01-26:00: Gregory comments on pop commentary, delusions about Atlantis 26:01- 28:25: Ike’s take on Atlantis; Popularized by Late 19th cent Helena Blavatsky theory of the “root races”; Youtube 28:26-31:24: Danny relates to Republic as analogy for the soul in harmony; Back to Atlantis, which was divine and perfect for generations according to the Critias; How and why it failed; Connection to Aristophanes and the Symposium 32:25-33:10: Gregory asks where the ending of the Critias pushes us, comments on relationship to Symposium 33:11-35:30: Danny elaborates on Aristophanes, names in Critias, connection to Cratylus 35:31-45:00: Gregory and Ike respond; Ike connects to Egyptian tradition and texts, Book of Genesis, Deuteronomy, Proclean theology, Republic book 10, the politics and classes of the Republic 45:01- 48:25: Danny focuses on the relationship to the tripartite soul of the Republic, the discussion of the city in the Republic in relation to Atlantis in Critias, the dyad 48:26- 50:40: Gregory comments on Alcibiades, asks if Plato gives us a way to come back into tune through these texts; Comments on Ike’s remarks about Atlantis 50:41- 52:50: Danny responds, including remarks on Atlantis 52:51-56:00: Ike relates Atlantis myth to worldly desires, intemperance, Athens; the myth of Er; the ending of the text; bringing the gods back to the center 56:01-58:30: Danny talks about doing history in relation to Critias, Proclus; Asks what they both think about this interesting, strange metal in the text “orichalcum” 58:31-1:00:00: Ike responds 1:00:01-1:00:30: Gregory asks about the distinctiveness of this dialogue in comparison in relation to the Timaeus, Symposium, Republic 1:00:31- 1:02:40: Danny responds 1:02:41-1:10:47: Gregory comments; Ike briefly discusses the cardinal virtues and the Gorgias and Alcibiades in relation to these dialogues, comments on occultism; Gregory thinks Ike is onto something significant, asks for elaboration. Asks how humans participate in the divine. Ike responds, focusing on the tripartite soul and virtue ethics. Brings it back to the Atlantians and their downfall. Comments on self-critique, self-perception, addiction. 1:10:48-1:13:50: Gregory and Ike dialogue, debate about addiction in relation to Plato’s psychology. Ike comments on the proto-psychology of the Theatetus 1:13:51-1:17:20: Danny jumps in, relates to the Republic, the Gnosticism that was discussed earlier; might have gotten a bad rap 1:17:21-1:25:30: Ike asks for Gregory’s thoughts about the addiction connection and Gregory explains why this is a much more interesting Critias discussion than he expected. Gregory responds to Ike. Comments on eros and the necessity of strife. Ike comments on contention; relates to the Gorgias and sophistry: empty contention versus dialectic; Sports, sportsmanship. Danny connects to the Meno and the Republic regarding proper argument versus sophistic competition. 1:25:31- end: Concluding content