Ezra Klein and Jon Favreau on How the Democrats Found Their Fight

The government shutdown is the Democrats’ first big strategic bet of Trump’s term. Not everyone in the party agreed that shutting down the government was the right move or that health care was the right message. So why did they ultimately pick this fight? What are the risks? And what could Democrats learn here that might help shape their strategy for the midterms and beyond? Jon Favreau, a former Obama speechwriter and a current co-host of “Pod Save America,” joins me to discuss. 0:00 Intro4:11 Healthcare Wins the Message War 7:56 The Danger of Missing the Authoritarian Fight 15:30 The Shutdown as a Fragmented Event 16:51 The Learning Curve of Congressional Democrats 24:30 Affirming the Healthcare Fight 27:51 The Vulnerability of Blame Polling 32:19 The Path to the Midterms 45:30 The Realignment of the Electorate 49:59 The Question of Populism and Cultural Comfort 54:22 The Changing Landscape of Political Leadership 58:58 The Democratic Party's Crisis of Leadership 1:06:19 Book Recommendations Read the full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/11/op... Watch more on @EzraKleinShow Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-....