How China Became an Energy Superpower | Ep262: Professor Ning Li

Professor Ning Li has spent decades at the intersection of energy, technology and industrial strategy. A nuclear engineer, complexity scientist and founding Dean of the School of Energy at Xiamen University, he is also credited with coining the term "Small Modular Reactor" nearly 20 years ago. In this wide-ranging conversation with Bryony Worthington, Ning Li explains why China has weathered recent global energy shocks better than many expected, how electrification is transforming economic resilience, and why solar panels, batteries and electric vehicles have become China's most important exports. They explore whether the world is really swapping dependence on fossil fuels for dependence on Chinese electrotech, why modularity has become the defining feature of successful modern technologies, and what lessons other countries can learn from China's rapid industrial scaling. The discussion also covers the future of nuclear power, the role of coal in supporting China's grid, the untapped potential of heat pumps, and why the energy transition should be framed not as a burden, but as an opportunity for growth. Topics include: • Why China has been relatively resilient to oil and gas disruptions • The rise of the "electrostate" • China's new energy exports: EVs, batteries and solar • Why modular technologies scale faster • The origins of the Small Modular Reactor concept • The changing role of coal in China's power system • Heat pumps and industrial electrification • Nuclear power's future in China • Climate action as economic development Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: • Ning Li bio: https://thebreakthrough.org/people/ni... • Octopus’ Fiona Howarth on the EV partnership with BYD:    • Are Fossil Fuel Cars About to Have A Kodak...   Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction 02:45 - The Importance of Modularity 07:30 - China Resilience to Oil Shocks 11:51 - The Electrostate 13:00 - The New Three Exports 17:00 - Increasing Supply of Electrotech 22:45 - China’s Coal Use 29:00 - Heat Pumps 36:30 - BYD EVs 40:00 - Kill Switches & Security 44:00 - China-US Nuclear Collaboration 52:00 - Small Modular Reactors 57:30 - Clean Heat 01:01:30 - Global Leadership 01:05:30 - Outro