Breaking the Iron Wall: How Avi Shlaim Came to Reject Zionism

Celebrated historian Avi Shlaim, once a committed Zionist, reveals the personal and historical journey that led him to reject the ideology. From his childhood as an Arab Jew in Iraq to his response to the genocide in Gaza, Shlaim dismantles long-held myths about Israel’s creation. He also exposes how he has been largely excluded from interviews on the mainstream media throughout the duration of the genocide. Genocide in Gaza: Israel’s Long War on Palestine is published by The Irish Pages Press. The book can be ordered directly at the publisher’s website: https://irishpages.org/product/genoci... (Online orders on this website are preferable and highly advantageous to the publisher, which receives only 15% of the cover price from Amazon). In the discussion about the media in Britain, Avi stated that he has not been interviewed by the BBC. He was referring to the BBC in mainland Britain, but would like to clarify that BBC Northern Ireland interviewed him in 2025 for the Radio Ulster TalkBack programme with William Crawley. -------------------------- Support Palestine Deep Dive from as little as £1 per month: https://www.palestinedeepdive.com/sup... -------------------------- Avi Shlaim is an historian and author, and is a Emeritus Fellow of St Antonys College and a Emeritus Professor of International Relations at the University of Oxford. Ahmed Alnaouq is a Palestinian journalist from Gaza. 00:00 Intro 02:00 — Avi’s reaction to witnessing the genocide in Gaza. 05:00 — Life as an Arab Jew in Iraq. 07:50 — Jews thrived under the Ottoman Empire. 11:10 — Antisemitism is a European malady. 15:40 — Persecution of Arab Jews in Iraq. 17:10 — What is “cruel Zionism”? 18:40 — Other examples of Israel attacking its own people to encourage migration to Israel. 20:40 — Did Israel change Arab Jews for the better? 25:10 — Inferiority complex in Israel. 29:40 — When disenchantment with Israel began. 34:40 — Journey to becoming anti-Zionist. 36:40 — Israel is a racist state. 39:40 — What is the modus operandi of Zionism? 44:10 — Revisionist Zionism and Jabotinsky’s strategy. 50:40 — Do Palestinians “miss every opportunity for peace”? 53:40 — Should progressive movements be anti-Zionist? 55:40 — Do Palestinians have the right to resist occupation? 01:00:40 — Why hasn’t the BBC in London interviewed Avi Shlaim? 01:03:10 — Ehud Barak’s “generous offer” to the Palestinians. 01:07:10 — Israel’s policy of “mowing the lawn,” explained. 01:13:00 — The broader political goals behind Gaza’s de-development. 01:16:10 — Israel’s policy of “scholasticide” in Gaza since 1948. 01:21:40 — The role of historians in times of genocide. 01:27:40 — Finding hope in the darkest hours.