The Zen of Therapy with Mark Epstein & Sharon Salzberg – Metta Hour Ep. 182

Author and Psychotherapist Mark Epstein, M.D. returns to the Metta Hour Podcast for Episode 182. A longtime friend and colleague, Mark and Sharon first met in 1974 at the Naropa Institute in Boulder, CO. Mark is a psychiatrist in private practice in New York City and a longtime Buddhist practitioner. He is the author of several books that explore the interface of Buddhism and psychotherapy, including Going to Pieces without Falling Apart and his 2022 release, The Zen of Therapy: Uncovering a Hidden Kindness in Life. In this conversation, Mark and Sharon discuss: • Their backstory meeting in 1974 in Boulder, CO • Mark’s new book, The Zen of Therapy • The Buddha’s origin story through Mark’s therapeutic lens • How COVID is impacting Mental Health • Exploring COVID as a collective trauma • Mark’s insights while on a meditation retreat • How to create a healthy holding environment for ourselves • The importance of kindness in therapy • The limitations of kindness • How to find a good therapist Naropa Institute, Boulder Colorado, 1974 (00:10) The Space In-Between (15:28) Buddha, Sujata, & the Mother’s Breast (31:28) The Holding Environment of Mindfulness // A Butterfly Resting on a Flower (51:28) “The thoughts come, but are we just paying attention to the thoughts? Or are we paying attention to the space around the thoughts? There’s some kind of communion that happens when two people can each be putting their minds in that intermittent, intercurrent, interpersonal space. Interesting things happen.” – Mark Epstein, M.D.