John Surma on Why the First Statement to the Press Became the Roadmap for Plaintiff Attorneys,

What happens when the person on the other end of the phone is frantic, emotional, angry, and hurt all at once — because somebody died on their watch — and the attorney they are calling has personally investigated over 400 workplace deaths, refinery explosions, pipeline blasts, and construction collapses, and has learned from every single one of them that the first 24 hours will either protect the company or haunt it for the next two and a half years of litigation? In this episode of the Trustcast Show, Zane Myers speaks with John Surma, partner at Fisher Phillips, about what a company needs to do in the first hour before a lawyer even arrives — call 911, preserve the scene, document everything, and get grief counselors moving before anyone starts talking — and why the three biggest mistakes in the first 24 hours are failing to preserve the scene, failing to notify the right authorities, and releasing a hastily drafted press statement that becomes the plaintiff attorney's roadmap. John explains the difference between a serious citation, a willful citation, and a criminal referral, why the criminal path almost never happens unless you lie to OSHA or destroy evidence, and why invoking your Fifth Amendment right is available but has to be used sparingly because doing it excessively looks like obstruction. They also discuss the case where a press release about process instability handed plaintiff attorneys a two-and-a-half-year lawsuit against a company that didn't need to be there, how John got six heat-related citations thrown out against a security company by challenging the multi-employer citation policy and drilling the opposing OSHA attorney until he agreed to vacate them, the maritime case where OSHA cited the wrong standard entirely and vacated once the error was pointed out to the solicitor of labor, the constitutional challenge to OSHA's in-house judges using the logic from the Jarkesy Supreme Court decision — and why OSHA keeps withdrawing citations rather than risk losing in district court — the $4.95 million recovery from an EPC firm that delivered a boiler project that failed to achieve its promised efficiencies or emissions controls, and why cooperating fully with OSHA is one of the most dangerous myths in workplace safety law. John Surma is a partner at Fisher Phillips, representing employers in OSHA investigations, workplace fatalities, regulatory compliance, and related litigation nationwide. Connect with John Surma: Email: [email protected] Phone/Text: 409-351-5824 fisherphillips.com Chapters 00:00 Introduction to John Surma 00:44 What the person on the other end of the phone sounds like when someone just died at their facility 01:44 How companies find John — word of mouth in the worst moments 02:49 Nine years as a trial lawyer in Beaumont and the slow shift to 100% workplace safety 03:41 How do you stay emotionally grounded when you are around death five hundred times 05:16 How you grieve differently after that much exposure to other people's loss 06:09 Counseling CEOs through survivor guilt while also protecting shareholder interests 07:05 Why John advocates strongly for grief counselors even at the highest levels of management 07:16 What to do in the first hour before you have even called a lawyer 08:46 How fast does OSHA usually show up after a fatality — and what that Sunday afternoon call looked like 09:48 Do employees have to allow OSHA interviews without representation — the nuance 10:56 The single biggest mistake a company makes in the first 24 hours — actually it is the big three 12:19 How to handle the press when you are also trying to preserve a legal position 12:53 Why you need a crisis management firm before anything ever goes wrong 13:54 The case where a press release provided the roadmap for plaintiff attorneys for two and a half years 15:53 The difference between a serious citation, a willful citation, and a criminal case 18:40 Can you just shut up with OSHA the way you can with police — the Fifth Amendment answer 19:54 Why cooperating fully with OSHA is a myth that gets companies in trouble 20:50 What OSHA is really looking for when they ask for your safety records 22:27 If you get cited is fighting it realistic or are you just negotiating the penalty 23:30 Everything is negotiable — the alleged violation description, the classification, the penalty, the abatement, and the payment plan 24:03 Does the playbook change by industry — and what is actually the same across all of them 25:54 General counsel hat versus pure litigator — how that changes the emotional and strategic relationship 27:29 Six heat-related citations thrown out at a tire manufacturing plant — what happened 29:36 Did throwing out the citations affect the personal injury liability — yes and how #JohnSurma #FisherPhillips #TrustcastShow #OSHADefense #WorkplaceSafety #WorkplaceFatality #OSHACitation #EmployerDefense #WorkplaceSafetyLaw #OSHAInvestigation