When Narcissism Comes to Church | Chuck DeGroat on Spiritual Abuse and Healing

➟ ➟ Narcissism in the church is one of the hardest things to name, especially when the pastor looks godly on Sunday and something still feels deeply wrong. In this episode of Shepherd's Heart, Stewart and Alycia White sit down with therapist and author Chuck DeGroat, who wrote "When Narcissism Comes to Church," for an honest conversation about spiritual abuse, church hurt, and what real healing actually looks like. Chuck has spent more than twenty years doing psychological assessments of pastors and leaders. He explains why narcissism is a spectrum and not just a label. He shows how to tell the difference between a leader having a bad day and a genuine pattern of harm, and why rushing to call someone a "narcissist" is rarely the most helpful place to start. He also shares the warning a seminary professor once gave him that changed the course of his life and his marriage. This is a conversation for anyone who has carried church hurt they could never fully explain, or quietly wondered whether their leader is actually narcissistic. There is a path toward healing, and it starts in a different place than most people expect. What we cover in this episode: ➟ Why a "safe shepherd" is the real mark of healthy leadership ➟ The difference between abuse and the trauma that lingers long after it ➟ Why healing is "not microwavable" and what genuine change actually requires ➟ How forgiveness and justice are not the same thing ➟ What almost every narcissistic leader has buried in their own story ➟ How to discern real harm from a one-off mistake "I'm never working with a narcissist. I'm working with someone who bears the image of God." - Chuck DeGroat CHAPTERS 00:00 Personal growth and self-discovery 05:57 Using Milan Clinical Inventory 06:59 Discussing narcissistic personality traits 10:59 Examining Saul's leadership flaws 14:21 Narcissism and self-protection in therapy 17:40 Understanding vulnerability and self-protection 21:53 Assessing pastors' future challenges 24:37 Focusing on impact over labels 28:39 Discussing psychological diagnoses 33:44 Starting Point for Healing Trauma 34:23 Creating a safe space for healing 39:15 Recognizing signs of a panic attack 40:44 Importance of addressing physical needs 45:16 Shifting to a more grounded life 48:00 Seeking justice and healing 52:01 Reflecting on grace and forgiveness 54:31 Contact and Social Media Info ABOUT OUR GUEST Chuck DeGroat is a therapist, professor, and author of "When Narcissism Comes to Church" and "Healing What's Within." He co-founded the Soul Care Collaborative and teaches at Western Theological Seminary. Website: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/ Soul Care Collaborative: https://www.soulcarecollaborative.com/ His books: When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse: https://amzn.to/4oV9mNr Healing What’s Within: Coming Home to Yourself--and to God--When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering: https://amzn.to/4y0mXaI More Books: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/books If this conversation helped you, please like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs it. Hit the bell so you never miss a new episode on faith, healing, and discernment. CONNECT WITH SHEPHERD'S HEART Facebook:   / shepherdsheartshow   Instagram:   / shepherdsheartministries   #ChurchHurt #SpiritualAbuse #Narcissism #ShepherdsHeart Keywords: narcissism in the church, narcissistic pastor, spiritual abuse, church hurt, Chuck DeGroat, When Narcissism Comes to Church, healing from church hurt, narcissistic personality disorder, toxic church leadership, spiritual abuse recovery, biblical discernment