C. S. Lewis, the New Atheists, & the Failure to Disprove God w/Alister McGrath [Gospelbound Ep. 184]

Alister McGrath remembers life as an atheist back in the late 1960s. He believed only what could be proven to be true. And he judged religious believers for trusting in an irrational fantasy. Looking back, though, he can see an emotional basis for what he thought were purely rational conclusions. He didn’t want God to exist, because God would threaten his freedom. As an atheist he could do whatever he wanted. He could be the center of the universe. Now as a Christian and one of the most well-known apologists in the world, McGrath sees how much desire determines what we believe about the universe. He says, “The human desire for unaccountability leads to the metaphysical conclusion that there should not be a God.” Last summer McGrath and I caught up when he was the keynote speaker at a Beeson Divinity School conference on Persuasive Preaching. I was invited to engage and respond to his presentation. Alister is a theologian and Christian apologist with a particular interest in the relation of science and faith. In fact he recently retired as a professor of science and religion at Oxford University. I know him as a godly encourager and kind interlocutor. I’ve learned a lot from him on various subjects, especially C. S. Lewis. In fact, I was listening to him at Lanier Library in Houston when he inspired me to begin work on a book about Lewis and Winston Churchill. So I’m excited to talk with him again about atheism and apologetics and a heavy dose of Lewis. In This Episode 00:00 – Why belief cannot always be proven 00:37 – Collin introduces Alister McGrath, atheism, desire, and C. S. Lewis 02:19 – McGrath’s move from atheism to Christianity in 1971 03:58 – Conversion as a process rather than an instant transformation 05:07 – C. S. Lewis’s “Is Theology Poetry?” and Christianity as a big picture of reality 06:30 – Christianity as aligning with the deep truths of the universe 08:01 – The New Atheists and the power of rhetorical certainty 11:06 – Why the New Atheist movement faded 13:26 – How apologetics has changed over the decades 16:29 – Tim Keller’s apologetic influence 20:25 – Integrating apologetics into preaching 23:22 – Faith versus fact—or faith versus faith? 24:28 – Enlightenment assumptions and the limits of proof 26:33 – Morality, Christianity, and secularized Christian values 28:31 – Truth, meaning, and transformative belief 30:07 – “Bleakness is not an indicator of truth” 31:53 – C. S. Lewis, Winston Churchill, and wartime apologetics 35:03 – Lewis, The Problem of Pain, and the BBC broadcasts 36:52 – Lewis’s faith, academic career, and public apologetics 39:53 – The Weight of Glory and spiritual flourishing in wartime 42:39 – Lewis on marriage, forgiveness, and the Holocaust context 45:29 – The Guardian, archives, and The Screwtape Letters 48:44 – McGrath’s storytelling apologetics and closing reflections 49:38 – Gospelbound outro Resources Mentioned Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christian... The Problem of Pain by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C... The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Screwtape-Lett... The Great Divorce by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Great-Divorce-... The Weight of Glory by C. S. Lewis - https://www.amazon.com/Weight-Glory-C... The Air We Breathe by Glen Scrivener - https://www.amazon.com/Air-We-Breathe... Dominion by Tom Holland - https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Chris... The Dawkins Delusion? by Alister McGrath - https://www.amazon.com/Dawkins-Delusi... Making Sense of Us by TGC and The Keller Center - https://www.amazon.com/Making-Sense-U... The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics - https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/th... — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/po... 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5F... ✅ SUBSCRIBE: ▫ YouTube:    / @thegospelcoalition   ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/ne...