Girls in BJJ: Two Journeys, One Mat | Ava & Deb

One started BJJ at 14. One started at 59. They sit down together to talk about what training actually gives women, and what every man in the sport should hear. Ava Govek is a four-stripe blue belt at Utopia. Six years in, grew up in the academy, graduating with her master's in May. Deb Pokel is a white belt with one year on the mat. She turned 60 last fall, runs a Sport Clips franchise with 110 barbers across 13 locations, and has dropped into six other gyms while traveling for business. Perry talks with both of them about what it's really like to train BJJ as a woman. The first-day nerves. The mental barriers. The locker-room talk that lands wrong. What a great male training partner actually looks like. And what happens when your BJJ breakfall shows up on an icy boardwalk a year in. In this episode: • Ava's six-year journey from teenage cardio kickboxing to four-stripe blue belt • Deb starting at 59 after raising five kids and building a franchise • Why the first day is supposed to feel like that • "We're not your rest stop" and the one thing men in BJJ need to stop saying • The Naples black belt who called himself Deb's lifeguard • Positions that don't land the same for women • Deb's ice sprawl and the muscle memory that kicked in • "No is a complete sentence," Ava's most valuable lesson in six years • How to build a women's program that actually keeps women training • What's next for both of them Follow Ava: instagram.com/ava.govek Follow Deb: instagram.com/pokeldeb Follow Utopia Martial Arts Instagram: @utopiabjj Website: graftonmartialarts.com Podcast: insidethewave.com Thinking about starting BJJ? Come try a free class. No experience needed. The fundamentals program is built for day one. Inside the Wave is a podcast by Perry Wirth, presented by Utopia Martial Arts in Grafton, WI. CHAPTERS: 0:00 Intro, two women, two journeys 1:30 Deb’s story: 60, married, five kids, and a Sport Clips franchise 4:00 Ava’s story: 14, cardio kickboxing, and the accidental BJJ signup 5:30 Why they stay on the mat 8:06 First day, sitting in the car, trying not to throw up 18:00 What men get wrong, and what great partners do right 24:08 Training in a male-dominated sport 30:39 Size, strength, and the lifeguard in Naples 42:02 “We’re not your rest stop” 45:23 The ice sprawl that actually worked 48:33 Positions that don’t land the same for women 59:38 How to build a women’s program 1:08:30 What’s next for each of them 1:12:56 Final words, don’t get in your own way