Why America Needs a New China Strategy | Kurt Campbell & Rush Doshi

In Episode 442 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Kurt Campbell and Rush Doshi. Kurt is the chairman and co-founder of The Asia Group and served as the United States Deputy Secretary of State in the Joe Biden administration and as the Indo-Pacific Coordinator from 2021 to 2024. Rush also served under the previous administration in his capacity as the Deputy Senior Director for China and Taiwan Affairs on the National Security Council and is the author of the extremely influential book, “The Long Game: China's Grand Strategy to Displace American Order.” Kofinas, Doshi, and Campbell spend the first hour of their conversation discussing the nature of China's rise and the challenges it poses to American power, both in terms of its economic, technological, and military development and the scale at which it operates. They also explore the limitations of a ‘go-it-alone’ approach to great power competition in this new century and the importance of achieving what Kurt and Rush call "allied scale"—the notion that America’s decisive advantage comes from its network of alliances. This first hour also includes a series of historical deep dives ranging from the Cold War and the Anglo-German rivalry to America's own period of rapid industrial development beginning in the late 19th century, how American industrial capacity proved decisive in shaping the balance of power in the 20th, and the lessons that can be learned when applying this history to the Chinese economy today. The second hour is devoted to a conversation about what "allied scale" would look like in practice, the steps that would need to be taken in order to get us there, and the obstacles the United States and its historical allies face in implementing this approach. Demertri also asks Kurt and Rush whether the United States may be exaggerating the threat that China poses at the expense of more important domestic priorities, and the consequences to the stamina of America’s alliances and the durability of international peace and security if it is. The three conclude the second hour with an important conversation about Taiwan, including military contingencies, the diplomacy of deterrence, the public support (or lack thereof) for any type of security commitments to Taipei, and whether the United States is even in a position to win a war in the Pacific. You can subscribe to our premium content and access our premium feed, episode transcripts, and Intelligence Reports at https://hiddenforces.io/subscribe. If you want to join in on the conversation and become a member of the Hidden Forces Genius community, which includes Q&A calls with guests, access to special research and analysis, in-person events, and dinners, you can also do that on our subscriber page at HiddenForces.io/subscribe. 00:00 Introduction 03:50 The Long Game: Influential Works 05:19 Collaborative Efforts and Historical Parallels 09:18 China's Strategic Scale and American Response 13:36 China's Economic and Governance Models 17:22 Technological and Industrial Competition 27:13 Espionage and Innovation in China 27:40 US Innovation and Manufacturing 29:02 China's Global Alliances 31:02 US-China Historical Comparisons 32:16 Learning from America's Industrial Past 34:09 China's Historical Obsession 35:17 Cold War Analogies and Modern Competition 36:18 US-China Economic Interdependence 38:07 Global Security Order Comparisons 39:26 American Alliances and Strategic Advantages 43:24 Lessons from the British Empire 48:15 Topics for Second Hour If you enjoyed listening to today’s episode of Hidden Forces, you can help support the show by doing the following: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts | YouTube | Spotify | Stitcher | SoundCloud | CastBox | RSS Feed Write us a review on Apple Podcasts at https://apple.co/3fLSIgR Write us a review on Spotify at https://spoti.fi/3tv4zYr Subscribe to our mailing list at https://hiddenforces.io/newsletter/ Subscribe and Support the Podcast at https://hiddenforces.io Follow Hidden Forces on Twitter:   / hiddenforcespod   Follow Demetri on Twitter:   / kofinas   Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou Follow Demetri on Twitter at @Kofinas Episode Recorded on 09/23/2025