Ep. 172 | Peter Schubert on Nadia Boulanger: Ethics, Harmony Drills & “Tie Your Shoes with Love”

🎥 Recorded using Ecamm Live — my favorite all-in-one Mac app for podcasting, recording, and live streaming. 👉 Try it here (affiliate link): https://bit.ly/4osrvBk Interview Date: November 2023 Professor Peter Schubert returns to share rare, vivid memories of studying with Nadia Boulanger in late-1960s Paris—how you got in, what the “salon” lessons and classes were really like, and why her teaching was as much ethics and concentration as it was harmony. We talk about Boulanger’s intensely practical training (Dubois exercises, figured bass, modulating sequences, keyboard-centric theory), her mysterious “I don’t like this” feedback, and the revelations Schubert carried into his own pedagogy—especially rhythm as independence of parts and the discipline of forming strong musical opinions. We also touch on repertoire (Bach/Schubert), her aphorisms (“learn everything, then forget everything”), and how craft training relates to originality. Schubert also previews the new Baroque counterpoint text (with Christoph Neidhöfer) coming out in January. Chapters: 0:00 Intro & why this conversation matters 2:03 How did you actually find Nadia Boulanger and get accepted? 7:47 Paint the picture: Paris then—her studio/salon and her link to the Conservatoire? 12:50 What homework did she assign, and how did she critique it? 18:58 Did you already understand figured bass when you arrived from North America? 22:20 Is there a “harmony book” that teaches you to write like Ravel—and what was Nadia’s view of craft? 30:42 What repertoire stood out in her teaching? 32:41 Let’s go deeper: her ethical “operating system”—what principles did she repeat? 39:16 That keyboard harmony drill—how long would she make students do it? 41:24 Update on your counterpoint book—when is it coming out? 42:00 Why did you shift toward theory in North America—and what brought you back to keyboard-centric teaching? 45:05 If this is “vanilla craft,” where does originality come from? 47:20 What was the pressure to be “original” like in the 60s/70s composition world? 53:18 Did students compare notes—and did Nadia treat students differently? 55:37 Lighter end: did she have hobbies, food, vacations—or was it all music?