The New Moat That’s Driving Returns in Vertical SaaS

In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Dave Pandullo and Scott Hoch, General Partners at Frontier Growth and founders of AQL Growth, to unpack where defensibility, and returns, are really coming from in vertical SaaS. The conversation centres on why being a system of record is no longer enough, and how the next wave of value is being created by systems of action — platforms that don’t just store data, but drive decisions, workflows, and execution. Dave and Scott share how they think about: Where the real moats are emerging in vertical SaaS and vertical AI Why some systems of record are now at risk How execution, workflow ownership, and context create defensibility What “right to win” actually looks like in niche verticals How capital-efficient, growth-stage companies generate strong returns They also go inside how they’re using AI internally to rethink sourcing, diligence, and decision-makin, including building an internal system that encodes investment judgment at scale. If you’re a founder, operator, or investor building in vertical SaaS or vertical AI, this episode breaks down what’s changing, what still matters, and where the next layer of value is being created. Timestamps: 00:00 – Welcome to Verticals 00:45 – Dave & Scott’s background in growth equity and vertical SaaS 03:00 – Why AQL Growth is focused on vertical SaaS & vertical AI 05:40 – Check sizes, ownership, and partnering with founders 07:20 – What growth-stage investors actually look for 08:15 – Systems of Record vs Systems of Action 09:40 – “A system of action decides what happens next — and does it” 10:25 – How AI is changing workflows and execution 12:30 – Real examples from healthcare, trades, and regulated verticals 14:20 – Why vertical SaaS is different from horizontal AI 16:00 – The new defensibility layer: context, decisions, and workflow data18:10 – Are systems of record still safe? 20:15 – Why domain complexity creates real moats 22:00 – Digital franchise and service-augmented software models 25:00 – Why more founders don’t start “franchise-in-a-box” 29:45 – How AQL uses AI internally to source and rank opportunities 33:30 – Turning judgment into a system of intelligence 37:00 – Capital efficiency and returns in an AI-native world 42:30 – Quantifying vertical attractiveness 46:00 – The hardest data problem for investors today 56:00 – Rapid fire: favourite AI wedge products 59:00 – Closing thoughts